[LMB] OT: Practice for terraforming Beta Colony on Earthly deserts.

baur baur baur at chello.at
Thu Jun 17 10:03:55 BST 2021


plus incompletely cured concrete that was also also eating the oxygen in the atmosphere (plus a bevy of other techincal problem) 

the second terst campain in biosphere 2 fell apart due to psychological problems 

servus

markus 

> Raymond Collins <rcrcoll6 at gmail.com> hat am 17. Juni 2021 um 01:30 geschrieben:
> 
> 
> Biosphere 2 has been the only experiment in a sealed ecosystem. It was a
> experiment that failed because of oxygen using microbes which converted
> oxygen into CO2.
> People sometimes forget engineering projects begins with failures that are
> examined fixed and tested till the next failure,  then fix test, etc.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2021, 6:14 PM baur baur via Lois-Bujold <
> lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> >
> > > Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold <lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> hat am
> > 16. Juni 2021 um 10:23 geschrieben:
> > >
> > > On 16/06/2021 05:58, Matthew George wrote:
> > > > We have no idea how to colonize the Moon.
> > > Oh, we have some ideas. And more ideas will come.
> > > >    We can't establish closed
> > > > ecosystems, or even moderately sustainable ones.
> > >
> > > Not as much "we can't" as "the first thing we tried had unexpected
> > > problems, and we haven't tried anything since".
> >
> > and frankly - i would espect Elon to start up yet another company
> > specialising in research, design and construction of closed life support
> > system
> >
> > > That is not the nearly same as "we can't". It's just a "we don't YET
> > > know how".
> >
> > yup ..
> >
> > > >    We don't even have the
> > > > technologies it would take to operate mines with remote control on the
> > > > Moon, much less send people there to keep systems running.
> > >
> > > Pshaw. Given the funding, I bet I know enough engineers to form a team
> > > that could design the solutions needed in a year or two. Martian rovers
> > > (and the helicopter) are given rough instructions, and they execute them
> > > autonomously - and that is with the signal delay on the order of 15
> > > minutes. The moon's signal delay is on the order of a second or so. It
> > > would be awkward for direct remote operation (the way a backhoe operator
> > > operates a backhoe), but it would only take slightly more
> > > sophistication. None of this would require any terribly original
> > > solutions, though it is not yet at the off-the-shelf level.
> >
> > yup - and at least for nickel-iron the separation / purification for luna
> > is VERY simple .. grind and separate the metallic iron with a magnet (0.1
> > to 0.5% of total regolith mass)
> >
> > servus
> >
> > markus
> >
> > > And of course, the people don't need remote control, they just need a
> > > living space that doesn't leak atmosphere/water faster than you can
> > > economically replace them.
> > >
> > > >    And there
> > > > aren't any resources available there that would recoup the vast
> > expenses of
> > > > gathering them, not even the rare earths that are fueling the quiet
> > cold
> > > > war over Africa.
> > >
> > > Elon Musk is doing a credible job of reducing the vast expenses. It is
> > > illuminating to compare the costs of Iridium with the costs of the
> > > Starlink fleet. Most of Iridium's cost was in launch costs. Musk is able
> > > to use his recoverable vehicles to launch many more satellites than
> > > Iridium did for far less money (both per launch and per satellite). And
> > > if starship works, it will cut costs even further.
> > >
> > > I found Andy Weir's (author of the Martian) analysis of moon costs quite
> > > illuminating:
> > >
> > https://www.fastcompany.com/40494297/70000-moon-vacations-the-interstellar-economics-of-andy-weirs-new-book-artemis
> > >
> > > Once the expense of going to the moon is reduced, quite a number of
> > > things on the moon become economically interesting. And once we're
> > > there, we will find more.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to baur at chello.at
> > > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
> > > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold
> > --
> > Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com
> > Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
> > http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold
> >
> -- 
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> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
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