[LMB] [OT] Atlantic crossings, was Centrifugal gravity, was Re: Cordelia's College sport

baur baur baur at chello.at
Wed Jun 23 20:10:19 BST 2021


outside in does not automatically make ships weaker .. but it makes it HARDER to buid ships that are comparably sturdy 

one can argue how much this strudyness is necessary for crossings of the south / middle atlantic

servus

markus 


> Eric Oppen <ravenclaweric at gmail.com> hat am 23.06.2021 18:57 geschrieben:
> 
>  
> Roman ships were built outside-to-in---they built the outside first and
> then fit the ribs in.   Viking and later wooden ships were built ribs-out.
> That made them quite a bit sturdier.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:56 AM Pat Mathews <mathews55 at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> > How did Roman ships in their heyday compare to the later Viking ships? Of
> > course, the Vikings had a much easier route, island-hopping all the way. It
> > doesn't show on a Mercator map, but get one centered on the North Pole, and
> > it stands out strongly.
> > ________________________________
> > From: Lois-Bujold <lois-bujold-bounces at lists.herald.co.uk> on behalf of
> > Raymond Collins <rcrcoll6 at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2021 3:36 AM
> > To: Discussion of the works of Lois McMaster Bujold. <
> > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk>
> > Subject: Re: [LMB] [OT] Atlantic crossings, was Centrifugal gravity, was
> > Re: Cordelia's College sport
> >
> > Indeed.  If I had my time ship handy,  I'd trowel the past and see if that
> > happened. Alas! I don't have a time ship. So  maybe there might be a few
> > archaeological bits and pieces about like a bit of leather,  or a copper
> > coin. And don't forget the DNA.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 3:45 AM markus baur via Lois-Bujold <
> > lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > and the romans DID go to the canary islands - which was the jump off
> > > point for columbus to cross the atlantic
> > >
> > > servus
> > >
> > > markus
> > >
> > > On 23.06.2021 08:41, Raymond Collins wrote:
> > > > The Roman's had pretty good ships but for the most part they were
> > > designed
> > > > for the Mediterranean sea. But theoretically they could have crossed
> > the
> > > > Atlantic if they got lucky weather wise. And of course there were the
> > > > natives who may or may not have been  all that friendly. There may have
> > > > been contact but I doubts it was two way. Of course DNA evidence has
> > > > surprised us on the west coast of South America and on some Polynesian
> > > > islands.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:11 AM B. Ross Ashley <brashley46 at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 11:51:31 +0200, markus baur <baur at chello.at>
> > wrote,
> > > >> inter alia:
> > > >>
> > > >>> On 22.06.2021 02:32, Matthew George wrote:
> > > >>>> On Sat, Jun 19, 2021 at 3:44 AM Matija Grabnar via Lois-Bujold <
> > > >>>> lois-bujold at lists.herald.co.uk> wrote:
> > > >> [snip]
> > > >>
> > > >>>> The Romans didn't have the tech to cross the Atlantic, and if they'd
> > > >>>> somehow managed it,
> > > >>> that is very much debateable. Thor Heyerdahl showed that pre-roman
> > > Egypt
> > > >>> would have had the necessary tech for a one way crossing of the
> > > atlantic
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> they would have been a horror.
> > > >>> yes - mostly for the illnesses they would have brought with them ..
> > > >>>
> > > >>> otoh they most likely would not have been able to exploit the "window
> > > of
> > > >>> opportunity" opened by these illnesses
> > > >>
> > > >> We know that medieval Norsemen from Iceland managed it; the lack in
> > > >> their case was sufficient political organisation to reinforce the few
> > > >> settlements - maybe only one - in Newfoundland. Their knorrs were
> > better
> > > >> adapted to the North Atlantic than Roman cargo ships would have been.
> > > >> But they were weeks of sea time away from Greenland, more weeks away
> > > >> from Iceland, and even more weeks away from their old homeland in
> > Norway
> > > >> which was being ravaged by internecine war off and on for at least a
> > > >> century.
> > > >>
> > > >> I can imagine a cohort of legionary troops in 10 or 15 knerrir, but
> > the
> > > >> chances of all of them making the voyage intact are next to nil.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Lois-Bujold mailing list message sent to rcrcoll6 at gmail.com
> > > >> Lois-Bujold at lists.herald.co.uk
> > > >> http://lists.herald.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lois-bujold
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > markus baur                     SCA: markus von brixlegg
> > > schluesselgasse 3/5             tel: +43 - (0)1 - 50 40 662
> > > a-1040 wien                     email: baur at chello.at
> > > austria/europe                  icbm: 48°11'39"N; 16°22'06"E
> > >
> > > a portrait: http://www.abcgallery.com/A/arcimboldo/arcimboldo9.html
> > >
> > > "der Markus?? .... das ist der mit dem Buch..."
> > > --
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